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Submitted on
March 7, 2014
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I Need Feminism

Fri Mar 7, 2014, 3:19 PM







I need feminism because
It’s acceptable to call me a slut.
I need feminism because
It’s okay for a guy to slap my butt.
I need feminism because
It’s my own fault if a man rapes me.
I need feminism because
I should look good for men to see.
I need feminism because
People think it means ‘anti-man’.
I need feminism because
I can’t do things that men can.
I need feminism because
Girls think it’s cool to shame each other.
I need feminism because
The world has higher hopes for my brother.
I need feminism because
My femininity makes me ‘weak’.
I need feminism because
If I act masculine I’m a ‘freak’.
I need feminism because
My boobs are my ‘best quality’.
I need feminism because
I believe in equality.


           










Foreword





It’s a rare enough occasion when a literary deviant posts a poem that elicits over 2,000 comments for that feat to be acknowledged and celebrated. CorporateRockWhore recently graced the deviantART community with her work, I Need Feminism which generated a firestorm of opinion, both positive and negative. By serendipitous happenstance, her poem was published just as depthRADIUS was releasing our Coven article about the American Horror Story TV show, which also blew up a gale force of discussion, mostly centering on current perceptions and feelings about “feminism”.




We invited Ellie (a.k.a. CorporateRockWhore) to share with the community a little about the genesis of her poem and her feelings about the overwhelming response, positive and negative, it has received.  In her comments, published below, she addresses several misperceptions about her “feminist” intents, including the toxic notion (pervasive amongst so many men) that feminism is not so much about equal access and opportunity for both genders, but much more about female supremacism and the crushing of the male spirit.









Follow Up





Recently, as some of you may know, I wrote and posted a poem entitled I Need Feminism. This was inspired and prompted by a multitude of different factors, from things I’ve experienced myself to things that I have some across on the internet. For example, one of the lines in the poem is:



It’s okay for a guy to slap my butt.





Not particularly eloquent, I know, but it is based on several experiences that I have had; men, usually older than myself, copping a feel and then, when I protested, finding it funny. Of course, not all guys are like this, but some (a small, small amount) are and, just as equally, some women support it too (a few times I’ve complained to fellow female friends about it happening and a few of them acted as though I should have felt flattered). Another example is this line:





I can’t do things that men can.





Here I’m talking about things in a sort of socially justifiable kind of way. One instance of this could be the idea that it’s ‘cool’ if a man has sex with lots of different women, but when a woman has sex with lots of different men she is shamed for it. Personally, I don’t think either gender should get shamed for that sort of thing—the amount of people you have slept with doesn’t make you any better or any worse a person.


I spend a lot of my time on the internet, probably more than is healthy, and it is from the internet that I got into the concept of feminism. I’d see a post on websites such as Tumblr of instances of sexism that people (both male and female) have encountered and it made me angry, extremely angry. A person shouldn’t be defined by their gender or race or religion or sexuality; they should be defined by whether they’re a nice person or not. Simple. Equally, I have found examples of sexism taking place on the internet. It is all of the above (and a bit more) that inspired me to write I Need Feminism.











by Dolk Lundgren







Nothing could have prepared me for the reaction that it got. Honestly, I never expected it to be seen by so many people and to generate such diverse, strong opinions out of people. Nor did I expect it to cause so many arguments between commenters. I think it’s great, that something I wrote got people talking and brought up the issue; as an aspiring writer, that’s the best thing that I can hope for. I must admit, though, that it did get a bit scary with some of the more aggressive comments—I’d never set out to infuriate or offend anyone.


When someone comments on something of mine, I only think that it’s fair for me to respond. After all, they took the time out of their day to talk to me, so why shouldn’t I grant them the same courtesy? This is how I found myself proactively engaged in both conversations and arguments with the readers of the piece. Also, when I feel strongly about something, I’m always happy to talk about it and hear other people’s opinions.


The comments ranged from in-depth arguments and analysis to people complimenting the piece, from people agreeing to people asking me questions about it, from “you’re my hero” to “slit your wrists”. I found each comment interesting and uplifting, even if they weren’t always intended to be as such. The one thing that came up time and time again throughout the ~2,900+ comments was the idea that feminism is anti-man. I would like to address that here.










Let’s take a look at the Wikipedia definition of Feminism

Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women. This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women.







It is not about women being better than men, it is not about taking rights away from men and it is not about beating men down; it’s about bringing us all up to the same level. There are plenty of male feminists too – Matt Damon, Joss Whedon, Richard Branson and Prince Harry, to name but a few that you may know. In a similar vein, it is not the idea that all men are evil. It’s the idea that some people (both male and female) are sexist and that isn’t cool.





But, Ellie, why don’t you back equalism?





I hear you cry. Simple answer: I do.


I had an influx of comments saying that I should be backing things like egalitarianism, not feminism. I, personally, back both. Egalitarianism aims for complete equality, right? And then feminism aims for complete equality for women; you can’t achieve egalitarianism aims without also achieving feminist aims too. If you look at equality as a fight, then feminism is a faction of the army. I support equality for all, regardless of gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, sexual identity or any other factor that isn’t based around whether the person is nice or not. I can be a feminist and still back other movements too.


I’m going to wrap up with this, my own personal view on what feminism means. Feminism is an idea, a concept and it is not tangible – it is not concrete. Feminism means different things to different people. To some it may be used as an excuse to promote anti-male and female-supremacy ideas, but to many it is used to genuinely promote equality. Feminism, to me, means equality, means loving myself, means respecting women as you would men. Feminism isn’t evil or dangerous. Well, no more so than any other idea is.










Interview




@tecgnotic

Do you find it ironic or maddening when people with unquestioned social and economic advantages feel threatened by a disadvantaged group demanding equal status in society?  If this is “feminist” is it really all that radical or just common sensible?  Is “feminism” simply synonymous with “pro-fairness?”  This seems to be what you are saying.




CorporateRockWhore

I find it slightly annoying but I think I understand why some people might feel threatened. In the case of feminism I can see it, seeing as it gets a lot of negative press. I'm not going to deny that there are some radical feminists out there, but it's important to bear in mind that there some 'sane' feminists too. To me, feminism does mean “pro-fairness”; it's about equality/fairness between the genders. At least, that's how I interpret it. It means different things to different people, I think.






@tecgnotic

Would you agree that “feminism” has evolved away from an organized political movement for most women, and become more of a personal code of rules for self-respect and self-worth?  Is this a good or bad thing?




CorporateRockWhore

I think that, in most areas, it has moved away from being an organised political movement. I'm not a member of any feminist groups, but I see it as a mindset or, as you put it, a personal code. I think this is a really positive thing because it makes feminism much more accessible for everyone.






@tecgnotic

Do you think you’ll ever lose your need for feminism in your lifetime, or will your need always approximate your assessment of gender inequality in the world?




CorporateRockWhore

I think I will always need feminism, or the ideals behind it at least. Saying that though, I'm only seventeen; there is plenty of time left for the need to deplete over my lifespan.


















Questions

For The Reader


  1. What does feminism mean today? Is it authentic to its original intent or has it transformed into something for a new generation?
  2. Do you find a person having solid feminist convictions to be a positive, empowering, attractive personality trait, or is it a politically and/or socially polarizing?
  3. When does our obsession with the female body cross over from being an appreciation of physical beauty to objectification?
  4. Does objectification deny the fact that women are human beings who are sexual, but who are also thinking, creative, artistic, loving and in need of being loved?
  5. Is objectifying the female human body a violation of the principles of feminism or does it embrace them?
  6. If a woman thinks it’s OK for men to comment on women’s bodies, or make sexual suggestions in public, or touch a woman they don’t really know, is she just reconciling herself to the reality of male-female relations or is she enabling bad behavior that harms men as much as women?
  7. Do you think poems and other personal statements like “I Need Feminism” are bridges of hope for a more equal future, or just provocations meant to stir the pot?
  8. Do you think there is too much female focused nude subject matter on deviantART or is it a non-issue for you?  How much do you think your gender or sexual preferences might influence your answer?







It’s a rare enough occasion when a literary deviant posts a poem that elicits over 2,000 comments for that feat to be acknowledged and celebrated. CorporateRockWhore recently graced the deviantART community with her work, I Need Feminism which generated a firestorm of opinion, both positive and negative.  By serendipitous happenstance, her poem was published just as depthRADIUS was releasing our Coven article about the American Horror Story TV show, which also blew up a gale force of discussion, mostly centering on current perceptions and feelings about “feminism”.

Writers: CorporateRockWhore, techgnotic
Designers: marioluevanos 
Add a Comment:
 
:iconaburlacu:
ABurlacu Featured By Owner Dec 2, 2014
American "feminism" is outmoded and usually ignored by the rest of the world.
I am a professional musician,  a soprano, and I am in European, Commonwealth,
and Eastern european countries most of the time.
I can assure you that women 
are not the subject of ....
......the negativity in your assertions, of if they are, the attractive

aspects of the feminine, work to our gender's advantage, and never to our disadvantage.

If you believe that you have ever been demeaned by a man, because of being 
a woman, you should consider certain biological imperatives,
or just hang around wiser and more accomplished women
more than you do now... choose women who are good role models and you will see

what nonsense are most of the assertions of American Feminists.
Reply
:iconveroom:
Veroom Featured By Owner Nov 19, 2014  Hobbyist Artist
So techgnotic, do you know if there's going to be any heavily advertised hot topic announcements on deviantART to celebrate International Men's Day today? www.mensday.ws/en/about.php
Reply
:iconnessywashere:
NessyWasHere Featured By Owner Oct 7, 2014
All this equality war has made me... Moneysexual e_e
Reply
:iconevil-black-fox:
Evil-Black-Fox Featured By Owner Oct 7, 2014
The real deal on "HeForShe"
youtu.be/YbqTrCmQ33w
Reply
:iconsoarm:
Soarm Featured By Owner Oct 1, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
I don't need feminism...
Reply
:iconametris:
Ametris Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
In terms of objectifying, it is a very important practice for medical doctors to not see their patients' bodies as people, but as objects, so they can do what they need to without the emotion getting in the way - or changing their logic-made decisions. In terms of objectifying for art, we can realise (I hope) that a person can be both an object of artistic expression and a thinking individual. However, this should be therefore all people, not just some, regardless of gender. In terms of making comments or sexual suggestions in public, it depends on culture and country. In places of free speech, where the comments themselves are not threatening, even rude comments are not automatically anything more than rude comments by stint of them being directed toward a woman. In countries where what one says in public is more censored, then of course do follow the law. Whether it is okay to be touching a person one doesn't know does in fact entirely depend on the culture. In Japan, even casual touch can be rude - and startle a person greatly. I have known someone who described taking strangers' shoulders to shift them out of their way as being less rude than calling out in their nation of birth. I do find there is a bit much female nude focus on this website, being myself a gay man I would like to see it a bit more even. I have no problems with nude, or with bodies as art, but I would like to find more men as art. :3 In terms of what makes feminism, it's become a bit of a tough subject for me. I know some very nice women who have been bullied by feminists because being trans women apparently means they are 'not women enough.' They are some of the most effeminate women I know. I have also known feminists who say all people who identify as female are female enough. I notice more a lack of internal cohesion about the term and who uses it. So, whether I consider their feminism to be positive and empowering depends more on which form they have and how they use it, rather than if they use it. My goodness this is a long comment. Did I answer them all?
Reply
:iconicecreamgirl6:
icecreamgirl6 Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2014  Student Digital Artist
Thank you so much i feel like a big weight was lifted off of me .
Reply
:iconayader:
AyadER Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
ALL OF US ARE EQUAL.......
Reply
:iconvampress13:
Vampress13 Featured By Owner Sep 3, 2014
It is an extremely rare occasion that I favorite a journal entry. This is brilliant.
Reply
:icongrumpyoldrossco:
GrumpyOldRossco Featured By Owner Oct 1, 2014
You don't read much, because this was terrible
Reply
:iconkyrria101:
Kyrria101 Featured By Owner Nov 20, 2014  Hobbyist Writer
And you can't read because this is amazing. Equality for all :)
Reply
:iconhunterstrait:
HunterStrait Featured By Owner Aug 31, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Support HUMAN rights, not women or men's rights.
Reply
:iconroamingeopeton:
RoamingEopeton Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2015
YES!
Reply
:icongrumpyoldrossco:
GrumpyOldRossco Featured By Owner Aug 31, 2014
Me too. 
Reply
:iconlyrill:
lyrill Featured By Owner Aug 23, 2014  Hobbyist Photographer
commentbait much
Reply
:icon44000:
44000 Featured By Owner Aug 13, 2014
I do think that goes against feminism based on how prominent it is. It has become expected, even. People would probably be taken aback were they to start seeing things that objectify mens' bodies all over the place, but seeing it done to women doesn't faze anybody in the slightest anymore. For girls that don't know any better, it sets a standard for what your suppose to look like if you want people to like you. It gives people the wrong ideas. 
Reply
:icongrumpyoldrossco:
GrumpyOldRossco Featured By Owner Aug 25, 2014
All of the most popular male actors are all ugly. You never see them in revealing clothes or with shirts off and wearing only boxers. Never have male underwear models in magazines and there is never a social push for men to emulate big physical and musceular men. 

Great, then how can we not agree with you......Oh I know because what I wrote is a lie nd men are sexualised and you are purposely having you blinkers on and being dishonest. 
Reply
:iconkyrria101:
Kyrria101 Featured By Owner Nov 20, 2014  Hobbyist Writer
While I agree somewhat with what you said, the point is the more prominent issue right now can be proven very easily. All you have to do is look at any advertisement or magazine etc. I mean just because they are both an issue doesn't mean that someone, like the author of this journal, can't voice there opinions wanting change. As I said I understand your point but at the same time this passage isn't stating that men aren't projected like this, just that the females are and that she wants the problem to be noticed and fixed.
Reply
:iconramoreira:
ramoreira Featured By Owner Aug 12, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
as far as objectifying goes it is generally a no no but that is because people do so in a highly sexual way. i do truly think it is possible to see women as living breathing works of art in a non sexual manner (its kinda hard but thats a "society has you trained" kinda thing) i usually limit my involvement in feminism related things as a guy i feel its not my place but as far as my understanding feminism is a movement for the advancement of women therefore any and all actions should not belittle or otherwise degrade women but paint them in as positive a light as possible so it is more a matter of how than should or shouldnt  
Reply
:iconfried-ricer-man:
Fried-Ricer-Man Featured By Owner Jul 23, 2014  Student
for #5 I believe it all depends, a body being used for art and one being used for sex are two different things, if their is a painting of a curvy apple shaped woman, naked and near a bowl of fruit I believe it's "using" her body in a respectful and artistic way however a painting of the same woman in the middle of intercourse could bit a bit more questionable, some think if the woman is naked it's instantly objectifying her and I can sort of see why, but if the woman chooses and is not forced to get naked and the from of art is used in the most respectful way then it's not problematic or anything like that it is embracing them and it's through this artistic and respectful mentality that can make people wither male, female or whatever find new respect and appreciation in the human form, but only if it's used correctly.
Reply
:iconxxcrystalflarexx:
XxCrystalFlarexX Featured By Owner Jul 23, 2014
That was interesting
Reply
:iconwaterbendingqueer:
WaterbendingQueer Featured By Owner Jul 17, 2014  Student General Artist
I am proud to be a freak thank you. :)
Reply
:iconcynadyde:
Cynadyde Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Defining feminism is like describing a star, in terms of where each particle is. And, basically, there are two forces: inwards-- trying to narrow the definition, and outwards-- trying to expand the definition. Probably not that great, but that's all I have to say about it. 
Reply
:iconcynadyde:
Cynadyde Featured By Owner Jun 28, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Seems Legit ^^
Reply
:iconcynadyde:
Cynadyde Featured By Owner Edited Jun 30, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
What?? She is one demented (almost) glamor model. I hope she doesn't enjoy the attention she gets from the media. And I hope her misandry is taken as seriously as if she was a misogynist.
Reply
:iconevil-black-fox:
Evil-Black-Fox Featured By Owner Jun 30, 2014
Where are the feminist at protesting this? They aren't. In fact if I'm sure they will support what ever she does  to that child under the premise that she should be allowed to do anything she wants to her body, even if her unborn child's body and mind is damaged in the process.
Reply
:iconpoketoad:
Poketoad Featured By Owner Jun 14, 2014  Student Digital Artist
Reply
:icongrumpyoldrossco:
GrumpyOldRossco Featured By Owner Jun 25, 2014
Well done.
Reply
:iconaerithclode:
aerithclode Featured By Owner Jun 13, 2014
I dont Agree In This Poem. This Journal Is The Meaning Of '' Men Can Broke Women " They Said Women Needs To Be On a Death. Only Men Can Only Live? So Bad.... Dont Believe In This Journal. It will Make You Crazy. This Journal For Women Makes You Harm Like You will Die a Death.
Reply
:iconfallingteapots:
Fallingteapots Featured By Owner Jul 15, 2014
what
Reply
:iconbackup12051997:
:thumbsdown: that one rude comment. even if at times it sounds misleading, it has its point.
Reply
:iconargus9:
Argus9 Featured By Owner Jun 10, 2014
I donīt agree to this poem. It shows only the positive aspects of feminism, but there are also bad aspects. Perhaps you donīt know about Alice Schwarzer and her followers and of some of their bad campaigns that are even harmful to women.
There are differents ways of feminism and the radical way of Alice Schwarzer and for example, that of some radical swedish feminists, is really bad for both women and men. A much better way is the sex-positive feminism, which stands more for the freedom of women.

Excuse my bad english, itīs not my native language.
Reply
:iconbackup12051997:
backup12051997 Featured By Owner Jun 15, 2014
Everything are like 'coins', eh?(if you know a proverb that have '... everything have 2 side...')
Reply
:iconsleepyowlet:
sleepyowlet Featured By Owner Jun 15, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Alice Schwarzer is in the past, and Feminism evolved away from what she believed it should be. If you try to walk new paths that nobody has ever walked before, you're bound to run into the wrong direction once in a while. There are idiots everywhere, among feminists too. But that doesn't mean the whole movement is invalid. A movement that wants to make things better for women *and* men. And for people with other genders.
Reply
:iconbabykiwi25:
babykiwi25 Featured By Owner Jun 15, 2014
I agree with you, because I believe in equality for everyone too. And, I don't think it helps matters to act too extremely on either side of the fence either. However, I disagree with the people who say that feminism should die out; because there are still parts of the world that need it, like the Middle East for example. Even here in the U.S. in the 21st century, there are still some people who want things to go back to the way they were; when only certain types of people had rights. Which is unfortunate, in my way of thinking.  
Reply
:icongrumpyoldrossco:
GrumpyOldRossco Featured By Owner Jun 25, 2014
Some people are bigots. Some people are immoral. Some people are criminal. 
There will always be bad people. 
Society does not encourage, promote or foster bad people. In fact in many instances we punish them.

So what point is it about what these kinds of people think, and what is Feminism to do to change this (Apart from complain it is happening)?
Reply
:iconbabykiwi25:
babykiwi25 Featured By Owner Jun 25, 2014
Normally, problems don't go away unless people say something about them. Also, a lot of times it takes lots of protesting to accomplish equality. Just look at how long it took for people of different races, and sexual orientations to become equal; in society in the United States, as a couple good examples of that. Same thing with sexism, and any other kind of equality-related problems people face. Sure, we've come a long way in all those things; at least in most parts of the world. But, until mankind becomes peaceful enough to accept everyone; then there will still be some work to be done. Who knows when, or if that's ever going to happen though. I know the world will always be an imperfect place, but I still have a little bit of hope that it will keep changing in positive ways. At least, that's what I think. Anyway, I'm done arguing about this for now. There's no point to that, if it isn't going anywhere. 
Reply
:icongrumpyoldrossco:
GrumpyOldRossco Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2014
OK if you were in power, how would you completely cancel murder? 
What about theft?
Rape?
Assault?
Fraud?
People lying?
People bullying?

See exactly what I mean? 
You can have good laws in place....that we have.
You can make sure justice is as objective as possible....which it is.
YOu can make sure that society knows what is criminal....which they do.
You can make sure the crimes are reportable and enforceable...which they are
Reply
:icongrumpyoldrossco:
GrumpyOldRossco Featured By Owner Oct 1, 2014
Really? Why are you asking me these questions for me to answer these questions if nothing can dismiss this from your mind? You are saying you are not open minded?

I do not base Feminism on the rad fems. Never have. They are not taken seriously by anyone, why should I? But anyone who dislikes Feminism only dislikes it because of the radical Feminists, right? Wrong. So wrong.

I do not base it on the Equity Feminists that say "Oh, I believe in Feminism because I was told that Feminism is just about equality of the genders." They are that removed from what Feminism really is that they are of no consequence. 

Mainstream Feminists are the source of concern and always have been. They are the ones influencing every aspect of our lives. The perpetual threat narratives. They do influence law and academia and justice and media. 

They were not catalyst for change in Western Society. What WAS catalyst for change were the improvements in things such as the elimination of childhood illnesses, better birthing practices, contraceptive pills, social security/welfare/pension being introduced in society and such. This is precisely why Feminism can not simply transplant Feminism into developing or third world countries. The things that need to change so that the social can be elevated to a position that it can function as we do now, means that it needs these kinds of changes. 

History revisionism does not help anyone. 
Reply
:iconandemius:
Andemius Featured By Owner Edited Sep 30, 2014
That is true, SOME TIMES in SOME PLACES... But definitely NOT worldwide and not all the time, so then what? We leave them to rot?
And for a long time your SOCIETY did not recognize the truth in your words which is nowadays established in the west and the north. Why did it change? Because some people voiced their opinions ! Because they fought and suffered in the name of their rights, humans forget this too easily and dismiss it...
What is wrong with keeping the movement going anyways? Who does it hurt? MEN ?! XD
Hah ! Please... Just let them be proud, just let them scream if that's what they will, what does it hurt you? What does it hurt humanity?
Our world, is a good place to be because people have made it so.. Feminists are not all harpies, and I believe their idea at it's core is good and only good, there is nothing you can say that will dismiss that in my mind... And hey, if men want their own movement then let it be, so long as they truly fight for equality and respect than their cause will be a righteous one as well ! Although, truly, I do not feel that such cause is recquired...
And dont you go pointing out the extremists ! There is some for all causes, they are not the "idea"... Principle of the gun, it is useful if pointed in the right direction, preferably the ground.
Reply
:iconbabykiwi25:
babykiwi25 Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2014
I must admit that, you have good points. But, I still respectfully disagree with what you originally said about feminism being a bad ideology. And, I'd like to leave it at that please.
Reply
:icongrumpyoldrossco:
GrumpyOldRossco Featured By Owner Jun 29, 2014
Sure nice chat
Reply
:iconsleepyowlet:
sleepyowlet Featured By Owner Jun 15, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Even in the Western world we still need it. As long as some white guy goes off the rails and shoots women (and the men they have chosen) after leaving a manifesto about how much he hates all women, and the media going "we have no idea why he did that", we need feminism. As long as single dads are lauded as heroes but single mums are called horrible things, we need feminism. As long as wearing a dress is humiliating for a guy, we need feminism. It's not just about the right to vote, or about getting good jobs. It's about feminine things being as valued as masculine things. Which they are still very much not.
Reply
:icongrumpyoldrossco:
GrumpyOldRossco Featured By Owner Jun 25, 2014
Do not be dishonest and try to attribute a crazy person being crazy as some societal problem of misogyny. That is REALLY, REALLY dishonest. 

That makes just as much sense as saying "as long as we have murderers, we need Feminism". 
Guess what? We will always have murders. Same with theft. Same with voilent assaults. Same with Fraud. Same with every other vice. 
What does Feminism actually do to fix these problems? Same as it has always done....nothing but complain and lay it all at the feet of men and pretend that men cause it. 
So dishonest. 

Feminine things are as valued as masculine things, in fact if anything, in western society, boys being boys is seen as problematic, men being masculine is seen as potentially problematic and menacing or threatening and generally censored

Single Dads are a rare beast because generally the mothers in a relationship get the kids and so for a single Dad to be a single dad is quite a feat and generally the result of having to convince the courts and all concerned that the child's mother is a clear and present danger to the child and beyond any hope to "fix". The same does not occur in reverse. 

A man wearing a dress or not is now a feminist issue? Give me a break. How do you figure AND what is Feminism going to do about it....humour me.
Reply
:icontaliatheotaku:
taliatheotaku Featured By Owner Jun 27, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Your username suits you quite well, doesn't it?
You're really quite grumpy.
After reading your conversation with out fellow deviant, I believe you simply don't wish to believe that feminism has it's merits, whether the opposing argument is valid or not. You've simply been arguing without even giving a grant of "I see why you may think that way but I don't believe it is so."
In fact, you may even be one of the people worth complaining about, because you seem a bit ignorant of exactly what feminism is and what feminists with the goal of equality do, and you refuse to acknowledge others' opinions. I can understand why you think the way you do, but you cannot and do not wish to understand why others think the way they do, which is rather problematic, not for people in support of feminism or even people against it, but for you, specifically, because ignorance and refusal of others' principles is a problematic trait. This trait is another thing feminists are attempting to get rid of, and they do this by spreading knowledge of the feminine situation. This counts as "doing something about it," which you stated they could not do.
Reply
:icongrumpyoldrossco:
GrumpyOldRossco Featured By Owner Jun 28, 2014
I think it suits well. I have been a grumpy old sod as long as I can remember. 
I certainly don't believe Feminism has merits, but as for "wish" it had merits....yes I REALLY wish it did have merits. Nothing would please me more than to believe that Feminism had merits. (Well that is a little much. A lotto win or date with Kate Winslett would rate pretty high in comparison.....by it would still be great)
I do not see why people believe in Feminism apart from being conned. I mean conned in the very literal sense. 

"Hey there happy, confidence girl, are you looking forward to your future?"
"Sure am"
"Great, do you feel confident about your identity and feel like you have agency and the love and respect of your family and friends - male and female?"
"Yeah"
"Do you think that you have as good a chance as anyone to choose to get to where you want?"
"You bet!"
"Ah....my poor child. You don't. Men all are more powerful and valued than you. The women in your family and friends are your equals but men favour men over women. Men are a threat or a potential threat. They will always get the best jobs. If you do not get the job you want, and a man gets it....you know why. Men do not respect you. You do not have agency. Men are part of the Patriarchy - they are taught a secret code, and get man-benefits, and draw from a secret well of man-power"
"Really?"
"Really truly"
"I feel so depressed, scared and down now"
"So, do we all................BUT don't worry. We have Feminism working for us and teach us code-speak"
"So.....soon all their bases will belong to us?"
"Yeah!"
"Great. So this is about making us equal right?"
"EQUAL???....Ohhhh....yeah, yeah... "equal""

Yes it is funny. Feminists do tend to trot out "You are ignorant of what Feminism is" or a variety of that statement. 
What is even funnier is that whilst Feminists universally adopt a definition that purports Feminism want of equal rights and equality, when you point out the big areas in society where women are clearly advantaged over men and men are hugely disadvantaged.....so how can it be a want for equality when Feminists support the status quo, you will get a number of defences (see which one actual answers the claim or counters the proposition)

* "Stop your "what about the mens"!"
* "You fix it then"
* "What women suffer is heaps worse
* "Patriarchy hurts men too
* "Men deserve it''

You see the answer there? Me neither

I DO acknowledge other people's opinions. If I agree with them I will respond in kind. If I don't I will respond in kind. They are certainly acknowledged. That is not what you are saying though You are asking if I "empathise" with them. No I do not "feel their pain" in any way whatsoever. Just like I do not"feel the hunger of my Ethiopian brothers when I am hungry" and how no Western Feminists pretend to "feel the pain "of "the women in the Middle East" which I hear a lot of Feminists beat their breasts about but not ACTUALLY do more than use this pain as a watered down version of "Our shared female oppression and suffering" without actually suffering themselves (like the way I do not feel Ethiopian men's hunger when I skip lunch break.)

Actually my "ignorance" is not ignorance" in exactly the same way as the point you made is not made at all.

My comment about what Feminists are not doing was I believe in respect to preventing criminals from being criminals. Or bad people from being bad people

"Feminists need feminism to because women are not safe to walk the street at night alone"

This is precisely the kind of thing I was talking about. Now if we can completely overlook the fact that MEN are at far greater risk of assault generally and that no man is safe walking alone at night either...which we probably shouldn't....but still, WHAT is Feminism going to do to stop assaults and rapes by the kind of people (small minority thankfully) that would do this? 

The answer is probably nothing more than talk about it and say "Whilst it still happens there is a need for Feminism"

It gives nothing, accomplishes nothing and the most "constructive" thing it does is lays all the responsibility to fix the problem with the government and the system which Feminism believes is this big Patriarchy AND blames men (specifically and generally) for all violence and trouble in society. 

It is not worth applauding or considering for any merit or worth. 
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